copper busbar dc ampacity calculator

<]>> To me, I think it is under size since the current ampacity of it should be around 2600A (in AC, DC should be less). Hence the formula for calculating current carrying capacity,if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'electrical4u_net-medrectangle-4','ezslot_6',109,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_position != 'undefined'){__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-electrical4u_net-medrectangle-4-0')}; Copper busbar current carrying capacity = 1.2 * Busbar width in mm * Thickness in mm Amps, Aluminium busbar current carrying capacity = 0.8 * Busbar width in mm * Thickness in mm Amps, Iron busbar current Carrying capacity = 0.6 * Busbar width in mm * Thickness in mm Amps, Galvanized busbar current Carrying capacity = 0.6 * Busbar width in mm * Thickness in mm Amps, Silver busbar current Carrying capacity = 1.6 * Busbar width in mm * Thickness in mm Amps. 0000007519 00000 n I will appreciate any help you can provide. 0000020523 00000 n Bus bar connections are actually supposed to be silvered or tinned. How to size this stuff has been explained numerous times just on this one thread alone, and if you can't follow it sufficiently to do the arithmetic yourself, you don't understand enough to install bus bar without guidance. plating on plastics - New Delhi, India. 4. A. I can't exactly answer your inquiry, but think of this: when two flat surfaces of say 1" x 1" contact each other, we might say that the contact area is one square inch, and the DC ampacity of the joint is therefore 1000 Amps. 0000073034 00000 n 0000023458 00000 n Q. 0000001362 00000 n 0000001485 00000 n !w3ZZ6 I've used 1000 Amps / square inch (in open air) in plating and anodizing shops for many decades, so I think 1/10 of a square inch would be correct for 100 Amps continuous load. So you will see that empirical numbers are used instead. 0000037369 00000 n I visited a GE or Westinghouse bus bar plant decades ago where they hung bus bar vertically and dipped it 4"-6" deep into the plating solution to plate the ends. =(3.ye!|q& B/PxX Ted has a good point about the calculations, but this is not written in stone. Thanks and Warm Regards The following tables have been provided by the Alliance for Telecommunications Industry Solutions (ATIS), T1 Committee, and represent ampacities for busbar sizes and arrangements typically found in the telecommunications industry. Thanks! a 1/2" x 2" buss is listed at 1000 amps. There should be no decline. Will connecting both ends of the cathode bar decrease the resistance through the cathode bar to the 40 plating racks evenly spaced on the bar? 0000008406 00000 n The KVA waste sounds like 2000 A x 2.1 V /1000 = 4.2 KVA. 0000001800 00000 n Huh? Thank you for very useful information; I have question as I work only in AC and I'm managing project for DC busbar with the following data: length 100 m, Current 2000 A, Voltage 48 V, size 1600 mm2. This gives you measurable but not excessive voltage drops, and warm but not hot bus bars. 24 0 obj << /Linearized 1 /O 26 /H [ 1240 353 ] /L 177436 /E 115625 /N 4 /T 176838 >> endobj xref 24 40 0000000016 00000 n Sorry, I don't know the answers for your situation. Currently, bussing is only connected to one end of tank. Affiliate Link The resistivity is 10.371 ohm circular mils/foot at 20C surface of the cable. I cannot reuse them and I don't want to. ; J Q. endstream endobj 55 0 obj<> endobj 57 0 obj<>/XObject<>/ProcSet[/PDF/Text/ImageC]>>>> endobj 58 0 obj[59 0 R 60 0 R 61 0 R 62 0 R] endobj 59 0 obj<> endobj 60 0 obj<> endobj 61 0 obj<> endobj 62 0 obj<> endobj 63 0 obj<> endobj 64 0 obj<> endobj 65 0 obj<> endobj 66 0 obj<> endobj 67 0 obj<> endobj 68 0 obj<>stream Z ig[c7y6tl6 Q"*&}w ]BSA!(jB%[3HRe0%>C\~KyIwz[ q54fZ=6a7fv.ES:ElG5v_1*bTc1N1VI5McnlRI36VN46jehA Nn~Od[JnMqQ-cp_XdcJr,Ri}v9l/)fohp:=?H'L}NxT Fp0ZF0T=T&Cnq3~*Bg8Q):NTwO e?=P'Iti`=);F&!x}6~! 0000017420 00000 n The surface roughening that may occur at the bend is not serious as long as it is only a surface condition. Khor, for an electroplating bussing installation I would consider the ampacity of a 12 mm x 100 mm busbar (slightly under 1/2" x slightly under 4") to be about 1860 Amps. 0000002352 00000 n Now I have a rectifier which the rating the output rating is 12VDC, 4000A. 0000034399 00000 n There should be no spot on the switch where the cross sectional area of the copper is less than 1/5 in2 because the current carrying capacity of copper is 1000 A/in2. My own thumb rule, which was already a well established guideline at the plating equipment manufacturer I went to work for in 1967 is simply 1 square inch (645 square millimeters) of cross sectional area in the bus bars for every thousand amps you want to carry. Hope this helps. V = 2000 A x 1.05 x 10-3 Ω = 2.1 Volts. You can measure the amperage along the length of the cathode bar on each rack/fixture with a tong tester/ammeter to verify the amperage is consistent. But unfortunately I have no actual experience in short peak loads, so I can't answer from experience. Although it's true that the insulation may make them get somewhat warmer than an open bus bar, I've never personally seen a problem if the old thumbrule of one square inch per 1000 amps of rectifier capacity is used. 1) What is the actual size of busbar I have to use in this case? DC currents have no inductance; inductance is the voltage induced rather by a non-steady-state current. Generally, the allowable temperature rise is fairly low and it doesn't do much good to design to a higher allowable temperature rise anyway -- because conductivity is inversely proportional to temperature. 0n3p10*@cg,bz%A!A [I W5X7 Dv8@/}/hB+C 1CpE#'?fbo WJ endstream endobj 63 0 obj 240 endobj 26 0 obj << /Type /Page /Parent 21 0 R /Resources 27 0 R /Contents [ 38 0 R 40 0 R 42 0 R 44 0 R 46 0 R 48 0 R 50 0 R 53 0 R ] /MediaBox [ 0 0 612 792 ] /CropBox [ 0 0 612 792 ] /Rotate 0 >> endobj 27 0 obj << /ProcSet [ /PDF /Text /ImageC ] /Font << /TT1 33 0 R /TT3 28 0 R /TT5 29 0 R /TT7 35 0 R >> /XObject << /Im1 51 0 R >> /ExtGState << /GS1 58 0 R >> /ColorSpace << /Cs6 34 0 R >> >> endobj 28 0 obj << /Type /Font /Subtype /TrueType /FirstChar 32 /LastChar 89 /Widths [ 342 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 711 711 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 776 762 724 0 683 650 0 0 546 0 0 637 948 847 850 733 0 782 710 682 812 0 0 0 737 ] /Encoding /WinAnsiEncoding /BaseFont /AAMONM+Verdana-BoldItalic /FontDescriptor 36 0 R >> endobj 29 0 obj << /Type /Font /Subtype /TrueType /FirstChar 32 /LastChar 176 /Widths [ 352 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 454 454 636 0 364 454 364 454 636 636 636 636 636 636 636 636 636 0 454 0 0 0 0 0 0 684 0 698 771 632 575 0 751 421 0 693 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 616 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 601 623 521 623 596 352 623 633 274 0 592 274 973 633 607 623 623 427 521 394 633 592 818 592 592 525 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 542 ] /Encoding /WinAnsiEncoding /BaseFont /AAMONO+Verdana /FontDescriptor 31 0 R >> endobj 30 0 obj << /Filter /FlateDecode /Length 214 >> stream Consult'g, Train'g& Software, About/Contact-Privacy Policy-1995-2022 finishing.com, Pine Beach, New Jersey, USA, -- this entry appended to this thread by editor in lieu of spawning a duplicative thread, Plating shop owner - Vsetin, Czech Republic, product designer - hyderabad, A.P., India, Transformers - Mumbai, Maharashtra, India. How to calculate the copper busbar size for a given DC current rating ? I am not an electrical person, a mechanical person and it would seem to me to be a fundamental electrical problem, yet I cannot find any information anywhere. In same current, copper which apply to DC circuit should be larger than AC 50Hz circuit? and as stated above it's in line with 1000 Amp/sq.in. These are for rotogravure cylinder plating machines. As you see, we appended your inquiry to a thread which I think will answer it for you: the copper needs 1 inch of cross sectional area for every 1000 amps. R6td&jPj kT4y. But I have not found a chart stating whether that is AC or DC. And I understand that a 1/4 x 4 bar has greater surface area and cooling, and consequently higher current carrying capacity, than a 1/2 by 2 bar. 0000005512 00000 n 0000001593 00000 n Thanks, Kurt. Your busing is 12% short of IDEAL calculations. DC causes greater heating of the bus. You have entered an incorrect email address! Obviously, this is a suggestion only applicable to submerged plating jigs, and not to be extrapolated that it's okay to figure steel as 10 percent of copper in all applications :-). 0000009080 00000 n 0000005266 00000 n Q. I made 200 amp switch with tin coated copper busbar. The minimum bend radii may be reduced only if specifically allowed by the conductor manufacturer. The spacing between bars is equal to or more than their thickness, and the bars are run in a horizontal plane. A 1/4" x 4" buss however is at 1250 amps. 0000001572 00000 n R = 1.05 x 10-3 Ω When we do inside diameters or fixtures that require a threaded bar, we use steel to support the mass of the part(s). .Xk6s(s$~h$H% Apex Tool Group - York, Pennsylvania USA, (your purchases make finishing.com possible). 0000070357 00000 n As in whether it is better or worse. My amperage requirement is only 1500A, but I've overspec'd for heat, losses etc in the system. If you are leading each end of your cathode/anode bars from the MAIN busbar, I found that these leads from the MAIN busing should be of the same length. 0000001317 00000 n The minimum bending radius for copper is equal to the thickness of the bar. 3bi50PK k`eiWj. 0000004706 00000 n Which methods I can apply to do the same. That is, we have a macro thumb-rule that a square inch of copper can carry 1000 Amps, and we don't apply that macro rule to a micro situation. I know that the surface corrosion will have a very small impact but that the connections could be significant. And also I want Aluminum Calculations also. But figure it is about 10 percent of copper. Are there any tables of recommended solid conductor sizes for dc current similar to what is used for home wiring? And would it make any difference if use cables instead of copper bars. 0000008590 00000 n Q. Hi Ted. 0000002933 00000 n Yes, exactly. Sorry, I don't know the codes regarding short circuit protection (if any) in your situation, and my main experience is with low voltage busbar, not 200 V busbar. startxref Good day Mihai. Is cable advisable to use for 700 Amps Oil Cooled rectifier for Nickel plating or it should be Copper bar only. A. Hello again, Petr. No abstract questions. 2) How to calculate for DC busbar? This link should give you all the info you need. cVVO.eU&D$?/m^N^]7m^zc :eXwd#i KD-NPhds"`%\GlU1^Z%lF{ Cl,al9IR2 3rRpp vwgW:_o@y e^[b[E5r'b?k1? 0000003864 00000 n Aluminum bus bar seems to be rated about 50 to 60 percent as conductive as copper. Regards, P Marek. How to calculate copper bus size for the Continuous DC load of 100A & a peak load of 200A for 1 Sec. 56 0 obj<>stream Aren't the connections coming out of the rectifier implying that four or five 6 x 100 mm bars are suggested? Sunny. All joints (male/female ) are firm and good contact. I have been going back and forwards with this for weeks. Q. Hello, I need to know the calculation for DC bus bars Size for Copper and Aluminium. More details about Bus bar: What is Busbar Current Carrying Capacity Calculation 5 Types of Busbarif(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'electrical4u_net-medrectangle-3','ezslot_5',124,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_position != 'undefined'){__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-electrical4u_net-medrectangle-3-0')}; As the stated thumb rule that the aluminium carries 0.8 times of the area, copper will be 1.2 times, silver will be 1.6 times, iron and GI will be 0.6 times. www.stormcopper.com/design/Buss-Bar-Ampacities.htm. You simply measure the voltage drop while the bar is carrying a known current. Sincerely yours, A. Hi cousin Hojat. This would be for a DC combiner with a positive and negative bus to combine lithium battery banks and which would be the common point to power a whole lot of 48V inverters as a large energy storage system/UPS. in has proven itself for decades. A. Hi Ajay. %PDF-1.5 % In stating that, my questions are simple. 0000017398 00000 n How can I calculate how much current can I send through a solid conductor? I currently have 1/4" x 3" Buss bar on my tanks, which according to the charts, is rated at 1500 amps at a 65 degree Celsius rise? Safety issues are tricky at best. trailer << /Size 64 /Info 22 0 R /Root 25 0 R /Prev 176828 /ID[<0106a25d7d8876649a4975b7d4d938f4><263729f7b2ee924bb0cf4b5d40b4daf1>] >> startxref 0 %%EOF 25 0 obj << /Type /Catalog /Pages 21 0 R /Metadata 23 0 R /PageLabels 20 0 R >> endobj 62 0 obj << /S 170 /L 285 /Filter /FlateDecode /Length 63 0 R >> stream You can choose the type of busbar, either aluminium or copper or galvanized bars or iron busbar or silver in the results. The rectifier terminal often implies what size bus bar the rectifier manufacturer feels is appropriate. I think you may need to retain an experienced electrician, electrical engineer, or plating consultant -- someone who has worked with this stuff and is familiar with the concepts being discussed. A. Hi, Hitendra. The allowable current carrying capacity of enclosed bus bar in bus ducts is a little bit lower because of lack of cooling; since bus duct is a standardized product, you'll see the numbers in product literature and electrical codes. (30s, 1m, 3m?). The ampacities that follow are from Table 5 of Standard T1.311, and are reproduced here solely for the convenience of the viewer. My question was very simple: Hopefully someone who knows will help us. when submerged, even if the particular steel were a little lower in conductivity. Architecural Manufacturers & Distributors, Architectural Installation Contractors Database, UNS Standard Designation for Wrought and Cast Copper, ASTM Standard Designation for Wrought and Cast Copper and Copper Alloys, European Numbering System for Non-Ferrous Metals, The U.S. Copper Industry: Critical to Keeping the U.S. Hb```f`` P @Qk&00L&,>Ib1O@Ae7N+S.k:Y$l6P0v In other words, how large does the cross section of the steel fixture have to be in to facilitate proper current flow or at least so that it does not overheat and fail mechanically. Thanks & Regards. This will work, and it should be done immediately before you risk catching the tank liner on fire. A. Hi Mike. Enter the breadth and thickness of the busbar; do not enter the length of the busbar. 0000012757 00000 n The minimum bending radius for aluminum is equal to twice the thickness of the bar. Q. I would, however, like to make a suggestion. You need at least two, not one, 12 mm x 100 mm busbars, although most experienced installers would probably use four or five 6 mm x 100 mm bars instead. Q. Hi. CapitalEquipment Sorry, I don't have any experience with carbon brushes, so you'll have to wait for input from others on that. 54 0 obj <> endobj My existing plating tanks have undersized cathode bars (3"x .75", 4000A rectifier) which cannot be upsized. I have always understood that the Rise in Celsius is the rise over ambient or resting temperature. If you are seeking a product or service related to metal finishing, please check these Directories: Jobshops I have read your thread and would like to know what you have to say regarding the corrosion and its effect on conductivity as well as any experience you have with cleaning the buss bars and methods to minimize the accumulation of green corrosion. And if this loss of performance is enough to change or clean the buss bar. Q. Hello dear Ted, But whether you should proceed or start over may be a different question, and I suspect that most people would advise you to just continue :-). 0000005026 00000 n A. Hi Virendra. here length or long does not affect the current carrying capacity of the busbar. We still say the ampacity is 1000 Amps; we don't calculate a reduced capacity based on the smaller contact area we see in the microscope. Did you wire brush the joints and apply conductive joint compound? I am long familiar with open bus bar systems which have no insulation at all, and which have been used for many decades in plating shops -- but I've also seen movement toward people no longer accepting open bus bar systems as being safe, especially as we get to higher voltages like 24 V. Welding cable sized at 1000 Amps/square inch can be used as an alternative to open bus bar, but doesn't fully address the issue of people working with live 24 v systems. Don't forget to check the ampacity of the anode rod when you fix the cathode rod. Using my current bussing, what are my limits on DC Amperage, and what is the temperature rise above ambient that I should factor in? Q. DC resistance of copper bus bar. But if you were to look at that contact surface through a powerful microscope, you would see that only very small peaks and very limited areas are actually touching. Drew, "No-Ox-Id" Compound All information presented is for general reference and does not represent a professional opinion nor the policy of an author's employer. I have had a hard time finding information regarding this. This is specifically regarding hard chrome plating but can be applied to other types of plating as well. I have never claimed to be an electrical engineer, but have run a lot of wire in my day. Thank You. As R=rho*length/Cross-Sectional Area wouldn't there be a high amount of resistance near the joins due to the area being so small (as the contact is on top resulting in an edge contact, rather than contacting the entire cross-section at the end)? How can I determine the resistance of the fixture when I have no idea about its temperature? 0000003673 00000 n To the degree that they suggest that copper can only carry 70 to 87 percent of what we know for a fact that it has safely and reliably carried in tens of thousands of plating and anodizing installations over 5 or more decades, I think it is they who need to go back to the drawing board :-). 0000002007 00000 n We electroplate zinc onto ordinary Link chain at 9 VDC @ 3000A. Ceiling Fan Power Consumption Calculation, Power Saving Tips, What is Busbar Current Carrying Capacity Calculation 5 Types of Busbar, AP Electricity Bill Calculator & Rate Per unit Cost 2022, Karnataka Bescom electricity bill calculator & Latest Tariff 2022, DHBVN Electricity Calculator & Per Unit Rate DHBVN, IDMT Tripping Time Calculator, Formula, Calculation, Battery Life Calculator, Formula, Example, Formula, Torque conversion Calculation, Formula, Example, T-Match Impedance Matching Calculation, Formula, Example, Strip line Trace Width Calculation, Formula, Example, Circular Waveguide Calculation, Formula, Example, VSWR Return Loss Calculation, Formula, Example, Trace resistance Calculation, Formula, Example, Tank circuit resonance Calculation, Formula, Example, T-Pad Attenuator Calculation, Formula, Example, Skin Depth Calculator, Calculation With Example, ITI Electrician Whatsapp Group Links Join, 1500+ Active Electrical Engineering WhatsApp Group Links Join, Top 10 Electrical Website for Electrical Engineering Students, Copper bar carries 4500Amps (1.2 x 150 x 25) current, Aluminium Carries 3000 Amps (0.8 x 150 x 25) Current, GI Bus Bar Carries 2250 Amps (0.6*150*25) Current. And V = I x R, so I get: Parts are hung in the tank using steel fixtures with copper strips to aid the current flow as far as it is possible. I think that's the case with the triangular bus bars, which are intended to deliver a knife-edge (and therefore better) contact surface. i. Ted Does this essentially double the current carrying capacity of the cathode bar (almost like having 2 shorter cathode bars end-to-end each with 2250A current capacity)? I am building a LiFePO4 battery with 280aH cell (8s configuration 24V) and they sent me tinned clad busbar (copper inside) of 2mm thick and 20mm wide by 90 mm length ( I know length does not matter). 0000014437 00000 n I feel you can proceed with what you have. @ |Kj ;!EGK#&0l"W^Ui0o?wYlnd)Ffvk3mm3;0UE$00b-+fBf[ mKnw'k1Ke/e{SE(Y9k>.VE/xqEaBIM}y7:7"{88Q(Q.PrC(!y$-?^DR Would appreciate some help. However, Storm is suggesting to derate the AC by 30% for DC current meaning those two bars would be 700 and 875 amps. 0000012868 00000 n Regards. I have seen plating shops clear coat or lacquer their bus bar runs (except for the connections of course) and it does seem to hold up well and to look better than streaky green stained copper. The copper bus bar is ETP-110 100% IACS (International Annealed Copper Standard) conductivity (0.15328 ohm-gram/square meter) per ASTM B187. but after looking up your company, I don't think that's the case, and what you will read on this page may be misleading :-(. I have a question for you: what's the whole voltage drop, cross section and short circuit current computing procedure of a DC busbar? 0000012813 00000 n I order 38 x 6 mm copper bus-bar / line. 0000003221 00000 n Sorry that it's hard to be of much more help from such a distance. xref To me, that's the end of the analysis, the ampacity of the contact is based on the cross sectional area of the bus bar or the header bar, whichever is smaller. So you would need 645 * 400/1000 = 258 square millimeters, and you've only got 228. A. Hi, Suresh. I want to measure the end resistance and inductance of a bus bar. Operational, Copper - The World's Most Reusable Resource, Safe Drinking Water Act and Copper Alloys, Toxicological Differences in Lead and Copper, Lead-free Solders for Drinking Water Plumbing Systems, Alliance for Telecommunications Industry Solutions. Q. A metal tool accidentally shorting out a 15,000 Amp power supply can be a spectacular event! The internet is largely anonymous & unvetted; some names may be fictitious and some recommendations might be harmful. Calculate the 150 x 25 mm busbar current carrying capacity in all the above materials. During plating the cathode bar gets so hot you cannot touch it. Ampacity rating to be used when the long axis of the bars is in the horizontal plane, or when the spacing between bars is less than the thickness of the bars, or when the bars are run in a vertical direction. If you didn't understand something and want clarification, that's fine -- people will try explaining it in different words but few readers will even read let alone try to answer a question that was already answered and is then simply repeated :-). Please get tables from suppliers like stormcopper or consult the National Electrical Code. A. 0000001608 00000 n Any ideas would be welcome. 0000051896 00000 n It is enough dimension for new copper ? (your purchases make finishing.com possible). 2. We do not generally like the copper to come in contact with the plating solution. A. Hi Drew. Q. Please advise criterion for the selection of DC bus size for the peak loads. 0000011129 00000 n Good luck. A. Hi TJ. There response was: There is a resistance due to the contact of the two pieces (header bar-busbar) and this can be calculated using Holm's equation (is an inverse function of the square root of load), however I have differing ideas in how to calculate the resistance through the buswork (through the triangular bar) as the contact is initially on the edge, rather than the end of the triangle. For example, For 1500 Amps Which size Copper Bars I have to use Terminal box i.e. Fits your number perfectly. If there is something you don't understand on this page, we'll be happy to try to explain it in different words until it is completely clear. A. Hi Danny. I need to reinstall some bus-bars in our factory. After calculating voltage drop (V 10.2, please correct me if I'm wrong) the loss in voltage first will result in not getting required voltage at the bus end and heat dissipation will be high (about 20.4 KVA again correct me if I'm wrong) even if I adjusted the source voltage to compensate for the voltage drop the heat is high. %PDF-1.3 % Maybe more heat transfer area to keep it cool. A. Hi Shiva. Further reproduction or use of this document is prohibited without the express written permission of ATIS. Thanks, A. Thank you in advance.

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